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Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Cintiq and Cintiq Pro
Ivan1982
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 12. Dec 2018, 06:51

Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby Ivan1982 » Wed 12. Dec 2018, 07:56

Hello guys,

I am pretty desperate and indisposed regarding whole situation so i will get straight to it.

I've bought Cintiq 16 yesterday, when i plugged it into my Dell laptop (G5 5587) USB-C port it shows picture in 4k so that is great i guess.
From whatever reason when it's plugged in USB-C, laptop starts to become unresponsive and stutters/lags, keyboard becomes unusable and Wacom device is not recognized in Windows 10 pro so pen and touch inputs do not work.

Windows or better to say Dell power management keep showing this massage:
"You have attached a power adapter to a port that does not accept power. Attach a power adapter to your system's power port."

I have tried so many different ways to make this work but unfortunately i am not able to.
I have read all possible solution and troubleshoot i could find online (wacom and dell and other forums), I have noticed that lot's of people have troubles as well, on many other systems. Apart for using DP port (4k (Not possible)) or HDMI (2.5K) + USB-A over Wacom link plus to make it half work, is there any other option?
Also worth mentioning is that laptop detects Cintiq fine and it works like regular tablet when i use Wacom Link Plus with USB-A adapter attached to it. Although without HDMI as i don't have cable right now (I will buy it later when shops open) and my laptop does not have mini DP so i am unable to use DP cable that is provided.
Other Wacom tablets work perfectly, latest drivers in general and also latest Wacom drivers and firmware, checked when i had Cintiq connected over USB-A and i use Intous Pro with pen pro 2 so everything works fine regarding software side (cleared/reset settings, uninstall/install drivers).

I had few observation during all this troubleshooting ordeal:
1. Laptop lags and stutters even with just Wacom supplied USB-C to USB-C cable attached, not always, but sometimes it does.
2. Laptop is very very slow when booting up if tablet is connected over USB-C, to the point it fails to start sometimes.
3. BIOS keep showing similar message like in windows regarding power adapter, if i keep Cintiq connected during BIOS initialization.

System specs:
Windows 10 pro, 1803 build(updated),
16 gigs of ram,
GTX 1060 and Intel 630 GPU,
6 core Cpu.
Bios version 1.6.1.
USB-C/TB 3.1 Gen 2.

Questions:
1. Simple one (although probably most complicated to answer) How to make this work in 4k as it suppose to work?
2. What is the reason behind USB-C troubles i am experiencing with this Dell laptop and Cintiq, why it keeps trying to charge laptop?
3. If windows recognize that display is Wacom Cintiq 16 pro why it cant install other components and make everything work?
4. Is there any hot babes island where everything works and i am not able to find it?

5. If this is something i can't resolve, can this be the reason to return this tablet to the store, last option i would like to avoid?

I would be great if someone could point me into right direction of how to make this work.

wacom5
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue 8. Aug 2017, 14:35

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby wacom5 » Wed 12. Dec 2018, 13:52

I can't tell but I only have seen this issue with this particular Dell computer while using USB-C. Perhaps Dell used a special implementation of USB-C. What happens if you just plug the Cintiq Pro to the computer? Do not connect the power supply and check if you are able to power the Cintiq ON.
I would contact Dell as well as they may be able to offer some kind of recommendation.

emilia
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri 30. Nov 2018, 19:00

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby emilia » Wed 12. Dec 2018, 15:57

Hi,
I have exactly the same issue, but with different laptop (XPS 9370). Right now my brand new (and expensive!) laptop stays on shelf and I am using old laptop via wacom link, because usb-c connection doesn't work with my laptop. I think I tested many different things:
1) Wacom Cintiq 16 pro connected to Macbook pro via usb-c - worked perfect straight after connecting usb-c.
2) Tested Dell's usb-c thunderbolt port with video alt mode by connecting it to usb-c docking station and external 4k screen - this works and Dell laptop didn't have any of lagging issues.

After connecting Cintiq to my new XPS, I am having exactly the same results as mentioned below by Ivan. I am still waiting for USB-C to DP adapter to arrive so I can use my new laptop at all.

Dell support did their investigation and suggested to update firmware on Wacom Cintiq 16 Pro, but I think mine is up to date.

Thanks,
Emilia
Kind regards,
Emilia Baszak
https://emiliabaszak.com

Ivan1982
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 12. Dec 2018, 06:51

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby Ivan1982 » Thu 13. Dec 2018, 09:57

Hey Guys, thanks for replying.

@wacom5
Thanks, I will try doing that, i think that is only thing i didn't try.
On Dell forum i see people complain that BIOS update broke Wacom/Dell relationship, unfortunately i am unable to confirm myself if that is factual, since i stupidly went over my rule "if it ain't broken do not update BIOS" before i tried Cintiq, now i am unable to revert to previous version of BIOS.
I have tried everything to downgrade BIOS but it simply wouldn't allow me to, Dell solution is to replace motherboard so i call BS on that solution.
People that claimed it worked with 1.2.1 BIOS are nowhere to be seen (probably gave up), so i didn't find any follow up on those issues.
There is even some online petition but that is for another dell laptop, not G5, although very similar in specs.
I think they were fiddling with some features that USB-C supports and that new setup is probably in clash with Wacom Cintiq.
I have tested with HDMI cable and it works, downside is that i have cable problem management and practicality issues arisen along with 2.5k resolution limitation, which is not cool.

Dell support didn't show any interest in this problem after i have contacted them apart from offering me to spend 150$ to replace MB.
Also i found out in the meanwhile that some people were able to get it work over USB-C by using some DELL docking station, well that is 300$ i am not spending + it adds more cables.

Wacom, you are our only option and we depend on you. I am aware there are no millions of us with this problem and we are basically statistical error to Dell when we contact them about this, if anyone can make them do something about this, it is you guys, probably as you know much more of how that works and what can be possible culprit.
Maybe you can tell them (in Trump voice to make it more fun) "We need to make USB-C great again" :)
Joking aside they need to be told by you guys what to setup and what is important in order this to work as they are obviously not aware.

@Emilia
Yes, frustrating. Especially when you test on other computers and find out everything works fine but it doesn't work on yours.
Dell simply isn't interested in this issue, i guess there are way fewer of us using Wacom and having troubles with USB-C connection then people complaining about other things like fan noise, not that their problem isn't important but at least Dell should pretend like they care :)
They even do not want to do that.

Take care,
Ivan

Ivan1982
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 12. Dec 2018, 06:51

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby Ivan1982 » Thu 13. Dec 2018, 14:34

Hello,

Just connected usb-c on Cintiq (checked all 3 ports) with thunderbolt/usb-c 3.1 gen 2 on laptop and power on Cintiq... aaaaand nothing happened.

So i will try to sum it up, current setup provides clear evidence that those cliche top shop commercials when people struggle with bunch of cables are true. :D
I guess expecting elegant single cable solution will have to wait 22nd century as currently we do not have this technology...

Take care,
Ivan

wacom5
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue 8. Aug 2017, 14:35

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby wacom5 » Mon 17. Dec 2018, 16:11

Ivan1982 wrote:Hey Guys, thanks for replying.

@wacom5
Thanks, I will try doing that, i think that is only thing i didn't try.
On Dell forum i see people complain that BIOS update broke Wacom/Dell relationship, unfortunately i am unable to confirm myself if that is factual, since i stupidly went over my rule "if it ain't broken do not update BIOS" before i tried Cintiq, now i am unable to revert to previous version of BIOS.
I have tried everything to downgrade BIOS but it simply wouldn't allow me to, Dell solution is to replace motherboard so i call BS on that solution.
People that claimed it worked with 1.2.1 BIOS are nowhere to be seen (probably gave up), so i didn't find any follow up on those issues.
There is even some online petition but that is for another dell laptop, not G5, although very similar in specs.
I think they were fiddling with some features that USB-C supports and that new setup is probably in clash with Wacom Cintiq.
I have tested with HDMI cable and it works, downside is that i have cable problem management and practicality issues arisen along with 2.5k resolution limitation, which is not cool.

Dell support didn't show any interest in this problem after i have contacted them apart from offering me to spend 150$ to replace MB.
Also i found out in the meanwhile that some people were able to get it work over USB-C by using some DELL docking station, well that is 300$ i am not spending + it adds more cables.

Wacom, you are our only option and we depend on you. I am aware there are no millions of us with this problem and we are basically statistical error to Dell when we contact them about this, if anyone can make them do something about this, it is you guys, probably as you know much more of how that works and what can be possible culprit.
Maybe you can tell them (in Trump voice to make it more fun) "We need to make USB-C great again" :)
Joking aside they need to be told by you guys what to setup and what is important in order this to work as they are obviously not aware.

I'll forward this to the team for further investigation. I'm not sure how much can be changed from our side though.

Ivan1982 wrote:Hello,

Just connected usb-c on Cintiq (checked all 3 ports) with thunderbolt/usb-c 3.1 gen 2 on laptop and power on Cintiq... aaaaand nothing happened.

So i will try to sum it up, current setup provides clear evidence that those cliche top shop commercials when people struggle with bunch of cables are true. :D
I guess expecting elegant single cable solution will have to wait 22nd century as currently we do not have this technology...

Take care,
Ivan

Sorry to read that that didn't work out.

Ivan1982
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 12. Dec 2018, 06:51

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby Ivan1982 » Tue 18. Dec 2018, 14:24

Thanks, every small step counts. If your support figure something out that would be great.

Take care,
Ivan

Ivan1982
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 12. Dec 2018, 06:51

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby Ivan1982 » Fri 28. Dec 2018, 11:08

Hello,
Here is the latest answer i got from dell support on forum.

Hi,

As per the update received from our level 3 team, the port(USB-C) is working perfectly as other Wacom tablets are working well (the same is been confirmed by you). Since Dell has not tested this specific Wacom Cintiq, there may be compatibility issues with the same and there is not much information available.

Since the port is working, there seems to be no issue and suggest you contact Wacom for further information on the same.

However, could you also check if the HDMI option works or is it the same issue with the HDMI as well?


Of course that is not the case since Cintiq works on other computers via usb-c and other Wacom products like intous pro use regular usb-a port on computer or Bluetooth/wireless adapter and not usb-c exclusively.

I did respond to him and here is my answer:

Hello,

Thanks for responding fast.

All other wacom tablets (except Cintiq or MSP) use usb-a or Bluetooth so there is no opportunity to have issues regarding usb-c.

Cintiq does work over HDMI wacom link adapter and usb-a port so again it does not use usb-c for connection.

So if we use that to establish some ground rule that from software stand point everything works we can go over to next level of troubleshooting.

This particular Cintiq was tested on another machine (other brand) via usb-c and it works flawlessly, it is also tested with wacom link plus and also works as expected.

People that are complaining wacom cintiq stopped working on their machines are people who updated bios on dell notebooks, i however cannot confirm that myself but i can confirm it does not work as expected with bios 1.6.1 right now.

I did learn from my investigation that Cintiq works if it's connected via dell hub over usb-c even with latest bios in question.

Can dell support check if it's maybe possible that something unexpected happened while they are writing new bios update?

Or we gonna play back and forth game dell and wacom? Usb-c is a standard, it is not some proprietory connection you can deem as incompatible with your device, if device uses usb-c standard with display port or thunderbolt and that particular device does not work only on your machine chances are that your device is culprit...


Basically they are not interested, as i anticipated earlier they won't lift a finger.
Once again, can you guys work something out, can you bypass whatever keeps creating this issues?
I would really like to see your update regarding this.

Take care,
Ivan

wacom5
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue 8. Aug 2017, 14:35

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby wacom5 » Wed 2. Jan 2019, 10:17

Thank you for these details. I will forward all these details to the relevant parties at Wacom. We should try to work with Dell and see if we can find a solution.

Ivan1982
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 12. Dec 2018, 06:51

Re: Wacom 16 pro and dell G5 5587

Postby Ivan1982 » Thu 3. Jan 2019, 06:55

Current state of this issue, my (condensed) response to their last mail.

Hello,
I don't have expectations that this will be resolved right away, as long as they do commit and do something about it i think something will result from it.
I am having this type of communique with Wacom also, and they will look at this from their angle. Even if this don't get sort out at least we will come to some conclusion.
If your team have some idea, what can cause this behavior i am willing to listen and try to check any idea if it helps.
I am already on latest BIOS, latest Windows and on other computer same, but Cintiq works.
Also tried all kind of USB, chipset drivers etc. disabling and enabling relevant settings in Win/BIOS and that also didn't provide any solution. All i am asking is that they investigate possible BIOS update issue regarding usb-c/dp/tb port. I have also asked Wacom to investigate their drivers, although there is no older driver i have checked that works or have device recognized(over usb-c) and i have tried them all.
If we look at this problem from several stand points there are some issues appearing that should not manifest:
1) If Cintiq is external monitor and it get recognized on USB-C port, why does it show "power adapter error message"?
2) If Cintiq is monitor, why computer stutters, lags or freezes when it is connected?
3) Why it boots slowly when it is connected, even during initial BIOS boot?
4) Sound on Cintiq headphones port works in windows, it does recognize Wacom as external audio device in windows so it must be visible to some degree.
5) USB portion of USB-c/Display/TB port obviously does not work as expected in this case as Wacom states all digital inputs (pen or touch) are performed over USB protocol. I do not know what exact USB protocol they use, is it 2.0 or 3.0.
Tried with several different cables all tested and working, original cable, short, longer... Same results.
All other things are way over my capacities, i do not know internal workings or hardware setup you are using but i know it should work but it does not.
It is maybe some incompatibility but after investigating into the matter, people have same exact problem on XPS notebooks, where same spec machine works with Wacom Cintiq and other does not so virtually there shouldn't be any hardware differences or maybe there are, i can't know that.


Their answer:

I understand what you are calling out, we cannot out rightly deny that this is an issue with the 3rd party device.
However, since this issue is observed only with this device our options are limited. I see that this case has already been escalated & we should have an update in 2-3 business days.
The BIOS is locked & cannot be returned to the previous version on these models.


I guess we will be notified.
Couple of problems i observed
1. Lack of testing on vendor side, i guess this is expected as they do not own all those so they are unable to pair up to test for compatibility.
2. Standards, obviously are not standardized as i thought they are...

I will post further updates here.

Take care,
Ivan


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