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Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby rwacom » Mon 8. Oct 2012, 18:54

Thank you verry much for your quick answer.
I have a last question; are the wacom tablets (intuos 4) compatible with the asus eee slate EP121? It's a tablet but it turns on windows 7, the processor is an intel5 .
Thank you for your responses,
R.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby pebe » Tue 6. Nov 2012, 19:34

You can set Wacom Settings -> Grip Pen -> Mapping tab, then set mouse mode. Speed for 2nd position and acceleration to 0. Then You can use good dragging. Maybe Wacom will fix it, but now it works like sh.t in pen mode.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby markwphoto » Tue 6. Nov 2012, 20:20

Hello all,

I have experienced the drag delay in various programs as well. I've found that the issue is due to the Pen and Touch features implemented in Windows 8 and not so much the Wacom driver. I've had the issue trying to select text in a pdf document, moving boxes around in Adobe InDesign and other programs as well. I've found if you have turned off "Press and Hold Right Click in the Pen and Touch Settings in control panel you're going to get this issue. If you re-enable that, the tablet works as it should but now you're stuck with Press and Hold right click. I have this all documented on a video I did on my youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrrUyObAa9M&feature=vmdshb). The other option is to turn off pen mode in the Wacom Tablet settings as already stated here.

While I know this issue falls back on Microsoft, I hope Wacom is working with them to come up with a resolution to fix that issue as well as the dynamic pen feedback ripple, and not being able to click combo drop down boxes on web pages with the pen. I hope this helps other and I will keep pressing Microsoft and Wacom about coming up with a resolution!!

Mark Warren (from the other side of the pond :-)
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby redesign » Mon 10. Dec 2012, 07:42

I've just registered on this forum so that I can also add my gripe regarding the infuriating drag-delay issues in Win 8.

I have a Cintiq 21UX that worked flawlessly in Win 7 64-bit. Since installing a clean OEM version of Win 8 Pro 64-bit, several issues have presented themselves, some of which are truly enraging.

Where to start...

General Windows - there IS a perceptible lag when click-dragging a scrollbar or window. Despite the annoyance, this is bearable in general Windows operation, but is unacceptable when dragging parameter sliders, panning pages etc. This issue can clearly be seen when trying to adjust the Volume slider in the system tray but is not as pronounced as it is with window dragging. Suggestions made by Wacom forum staff don't make any significant difference - the registry hacks to turn off pen feedback do not work, they are simply ignored by Win 8.

Adobe Acrobat and InDesign - I have noticed persistent lock-ups and freezes when trying to interact with PDF documents, where there is no response at all - weirdly, if I hit the Ctrl or Shift key after a pen operation, this seems to kick the app into doing what it was just told to - sometimes I have to move the cursor out of the document window before it will update. Trying to crop, as the previous poster commented, is a nightmare, with no selection reticle being drawn out and Acrobat freezing, sometimes up to 5 seconds or more. This behaviour appears to affect Acrobat and InDesign while using a tablet. In Photoshop and Illustrator, the drag delays are the major bugbears and have a direct bearing on precision and accuracy. Not acceptable.

Update: I wanted to also add that selecting and applying styles in InDesign CS6 does not work correctly with pen input. Upon selecting a paragraph or block of text, when the Paragraph Style is clicked, the style selector reverts to the current style and is not applied. Multiple attempts top apply the style (repeated clicks) does the same thing - what I have found to work, is to select the text I want to style, and as I click the Paragraph Style, very quickly, move the pen cursor out of the application window and only then does the applied style stick. Very, very irritating.

Update 2: Problems in Photoshop make it totally unusable - I am unable to pan with the Hand tool and I cannot select with the Marquee tool - this is a complete show-stopper, because I cannot perform work!!

Update 3: Major problem in Dreamweaver - when trying to select a hex colour in the CSS palette, the Swatch panel appears and the screen freezes - Ctrl, or Shift, or Space, or Esc, repeated clicks, nothing appears to close the Swatch panel to continue work - Task Manager shows the program is running fine (ie. no "Not Responding" message) but I am forced to kill the program in Task Manager and have to re-open to continue editing - any work not saved, is long gone! If I was only running one screen, this would mean a system reset/reboot. Other screens work fine and accept pen movement and input. What is going on?!? Furthermore, the right-click does not work at all - I cannot create new folders or new files by right-clicking to bring up the Context Menu and I cannot select tags to modify properties. MAJOR PROBLEMS!!

Autodesk 3dsmax 2013 - apart from the drag-delay appearing to be worse in 3dsmax (making selection and moving objects difficult and frustrating) the quad fly-out menu is totally unusable. When right-clicking to bring up the quad-menu, the screen locks up and the cursor is unable to select anything on the quad-menu, or even accept clicks anywhere on the screen. Hitting Esc is the only action that clears the quad-menu and the screen then updates as normal. This is totally unacceptable as it has a direct bearing on usability and productivity.

If this fault lies with Microsoft, only WACOM, not users, have the responsibility and clout to get MS to pick up their game and address the issue with urgency. Users are easily fobbed off - hardware manufacturers are not.

Registry hacks are not an acceptable workaround or 'fix' for the problems.
Last edited by redesign on Thu 20. Dec 2012, 18:58, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby wellander » Fri 14. Dec 2012, 12:02

I second these issues in 3dsMax 2013 #64.
Quad menu in max is unusable.
Right click in stack is not available
Ripple effect causing delay everywhere.
Right klick to drag pages up/down in Explorer does not work.

WTF!

Did I invest in a crap second class basement low budget copy cat Product or a high end top of the line workflow investment?

while you look into these issues also adress the dual monitor setup causing Zbrush to behave like crap when shifted over to the cintiq. (not Win8 related. You just never fixed it)

I'm actually not so keen on wacom anymore. Way to many Days have I spent searching for solutions.

If you can't make a elegant solution then at least make a step by step guide so that we can work.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby Wacom » Fri 14. Dec 2012, 13:51

For the ripple effects see the new FAQ here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12141
Other issues may or may not depend on the Wacom driver. For some problems the 6.32 driver works better. For the problems with lags minimize the doubleclick distance setting in the driver, turn the PenFlick Off/On, adjust the timing for 'Press and Hold to Rightclick'.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby _lt_ » Sat 15. Dec 2012, 22:07

I just spent another hour ripping out the pro634-3_int.exe driver completely and re-installing it, then trying all the tweaks. This is what actually now works for me:

- drag delay workaround:

Pen & Touch -> Press and Hold -> Enable

Just doing that seems to be enough, the actual Speed & Duration settings make no difference for me.

This reduces the massive window-drag delay, but NOT the slider-drag delay (in eg. Adobe Premiere) which ruins about 90% of the work I do! I also don't want Press-and-Hold behaviour at all.


- combo box/general clicking workaround:

(actually the real issue is that when clicking twice quickly, the 2nd click happens in the 1st location)

Pen & Touch ->Double-tap -> Speed = Fast

This one actually fixes that problem completely - BUT every time I log off/reboot Windows, the Pen & Touch settings are reset to their defaults. So every time I log in, I have to manually change the again!

Wacom let's be 100% clear - these are giant pain-in-the-ass workarounds, and must be fixed properly.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby _lt_ » Sun 16. Dec 2012, 18:14

Thank you thank you thank you lime_6!

He reported that the old 612-5 driver seemed to solve many issues for him. I couldn't get that version to work at all on my Intuous 4 - the pen didn't respond at all, and the Wacom panel didn't actually have a Pen entry (or allowed me to add any tools manually). Messed with that forever (reinstalled, manually ripped everything out etc), no luck.

But then I tried the next one, 613-5int - so far ALL ISSUES seem to be gone! Without any Pen & Touch tweaks whatsoever, no need to enable Press-and-hold, no need to mess with services:

Left or Right-click feedback rings - none
Window drag delay - (almost) none
slider drag delay - none
sliders in some apps that didn't respond at all - fixed
holding scrollbar arrows didn't continuously scroll - fixed
fast clicking/combo box issue - fixed


Moral of the story - Wacom's newer drivers are UTTERLY BROKEN.

Everyone try 613-5 and report back.

UPDATE: 620-5 works fine too.
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby s12a » Sun 16. Dec 2012, 20:10

I'm trying 6.2.0-5 drivers on Windows 8 and there's still some amount (though minimal) of delay when click-dragging in non-Wintab applications (in addition of some residual feedback from the right-click button). I don't have that lag when using a mouse. Slightly better than with the latest drivers, though.

EDIT:
6.1.2-5 drivers - they appear to work at first without the annoying feedback and Windows "Pen&Touch" features, but then shortly after I enter the desktop I get a C++ Runtime error and the tablet stops functioning.

6.1.3-5 drivers - After performing the correct installation procedure (remove previous drivers first, then reboot, install new drivers, reboot again) now it seems that my Intuos4 tablet works without any feedback or delay at all!


I also noticed that with 6.1.3-5 drivers there's not the annoying loss of pen control when the UAC screen appears!

So, it appears that 6.1.3-5 drivers work like they supposed to!
However! They have got several bugs and reduced functionality compared to newer ones.

I don't REALLY want to read tomorrow Wacom suggesting users to stick to these old drivers forever if we don't want Win8 Pen&Touch "features". We need updated, fully functional drivers which don't need partly working fixes and/or workarounds to work as intended.

I also made other tests:

6.1.6-7 drivers - These ones too seem to work as intended! No delay, no annoying Win8 feedback, no loss of control when the UAC screen pops out. I would recommend them over 6.1.3-5. These are the last Intuos4 drivers with a size of about 14 Megabytes, and seem to be the last ones to work properly. Surely, there must be a connection with that.

6.1.7-3 drivers - strangely it took an additional reboot to make them work in Windows 8. They appear to work like 6.2.0-5 drivers. There is some delay and feedback from Windows pen&touch features present. Driver size is about 19 MB.

======

A drawback of these older drivers is that they don't make the tablet work on the Windows 8 logon screen. You will need to use the mouse of the keyboard to select the user and insert your password. They probably also have other problems (besides reduced driver functionality compared to newer drivers) but I haven't been able to spot them right now (besides a bug in Windows GTK applications with 6.1.3-5 drivers which 6.1.6-7 drivers seemed to solve)
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Re: Windows 8 + Cintiq & Intuos = Drag Delay?

Postby markatfin » Tue 18. Dec 2012, 01:22

So that this issue will actually be fixed (unlike the hacks in Windows 7), I've created a petition which will hopefully make the problem more visible, and actually be addressed...
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http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/w ... -subsystem
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